Battery Backup question

[matt.thompson05@gmail.com]

Has anyone installed a battery backup on either their whole house electrical panel, or on a propane/gas fueled radiant heat system?  We're looking at Tesla Powerwall, but it's very expensive and there is an added cost due to our 400 amp electrical meter.  We have a plug-in whole house generator, but we would ideally like to have an automatic backup up the heating system (which requires VERY little electricity) and possibly the well pump.  Thanks!

[Hollis]

I have a Bluetti brand portable power backup that works well so far, they offer whole house systems, but can't speak for the quality, you'll have to research it.

https://www.bluettipower.com/collections...YTZWJ9KQFq

[John G]

Has anyone installed a battery backup on either their whole house electrical panel, or on a propane/gas fueled radiant heat system?  We're looking at Tesla Powerwall, but it's very expensive and there is an added cost due to our 400 amp electrical meter.  We have a plug-in whole house generator, but we would ideally like to have an automatic backup up the heating system (which requires VERY little electricity) and possibly the well pump.  Thanks!

I haven't seen your system but I have done what you're asking about, if yours is the same.

The circulation pump on the hydronic heat requires very little power, as you suggest. When I tried to run ours directly, using relatively low-tech generators, such as the one in an RV or the budget kind you can find at Harbor Freight, the circulation pump was unhappy about the "semi-sinusoidal" waveform those produce. The output of many inexpensive battery backup UPS systems is the same. If your heat system is similar to ours, typically using a pump made by Grundfos or Taco, it has a synchronous motor and needs a true sine wave to run correctly. I ended up with a dual-conversion type UPS backup that puts out a clean sine wave. It works just fine from the generator's funky output. Generator power in, clean power out for the heat, and it will run the heater for quite a while from a good battery too. About 90 watts to run the heat as I recall.

FYI you need a more robust power supply to get the well pump started, far beyond the capability of the affordable battery backup for the heat. However the well won't be nearly as picky about the generator power.

[matt.thompson05@gmail.com]

Has anyone installed a battery backup on either their whole house electrical panel, or on a propane/gas fueled radiant heat system?  We're looking at Tesla Powerwall, but it's very expensive and there is an added cost due to our 400 amp electrical meter.  We have a plug-in whole house generator, but we would ideally like to have an automatic backup up the heating system (which requires VERY little electricity) and possibly the well pump.  Thanks!

I haven't seen your system but I have done what you're asking about, if yours is the same.

The circulation pump on the hydronic heat requires very little power, as you suggest. When I tried to run ours directly, using relatively low-tech generators, such as the one in an RV or the budget kind you can find at Harbor Freight, the circulation pump was unhappy about the "semi-sinusoidal" waveform those produce. The output of many inexpensive battery backup UPS systems is the same. If your heat system is similar to ours, typically using a pump made by Grundfos or Taco, it has a synchronous motor and needs a true sine wave to run correctly. I ended up with a dual-conversion type UPS backup that puts out a clean sine wave. It works just fine from the generator's funky output. Generator power in, clean power out for the heat, and it will run the heater for quite a while from a good battery too. About 90 watts to run the heat as I recall.

FYI you need a more robust power supply to get the well pump started, far beyond the capability of the affordable battery backup for the heat. However the well won't be nearly as picky about the generator power.

Yes- we have the Harbor Freight generator and have encountered the uneven power problem.  Who installed your UPS backup?  Thank you!!!

[Sal DeVincenzo (Admin)]

This guy 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVsNMiY..._gd0rTJF9g
And this guy
https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse/videos

[GCouture]

Matt, 
    I wanted to add a couple of thoughts for you to consider:

• Xcel energy is giving an upfront rebate for whole house battery installations ~$5000
  
• Colorado has a tax rebate of 10%
  
• Federal rebate is 20%
  
• Whole house batteries can be set up to store energy when the energy costs are the cheapest. You can set them up to use battery power when demand is the highest.  This will save you money on your monthly power bill.  
  
• If you already have solar, they will charge from your rooftop generated power as well.  During multiple day off grid situations like we experienced recently, your panels will charge your batteries provided they aren't covered with snow.
  
• Most battery companies are providing a 10 year warranty where the capacities are guaranteed to be 70%.  Ten years from now, battery replacement costs could be a lot cheaper and maybe even better energy density.
  
• A whole house generac generator with a clean sine (utility grade) output can run $7k
  

Generators lose about ~28% at Bar K altitude(~24.5% in JT) so a 10KW generator is already running at 7KW.  Additionally, as you have mentioned, marginally sinusoidal outputs will lower the RMS power of your generator (if the waveform is more triangular) as well as the previously mentioned issues with ac motors that are designed to run on a clean sine wave. Our generator runs closer to 50Hz. Your motors will draw more current and run slower if the frequency is off like ours. Our pellet stove wails like a dying cat when we run it on our propane generator. (Minor exaggeration here but you get the point)  

It's a bit of an upfront cost but if you consider the rebates, the utility costs savings over a 10 year period, and the cost of a comparable whole house gas generator, the whole house battery is pretty attractive, regardless of the manufacturer.  The advantages of the propane generator are  they will run as long as you have available propane.  They do require service and maintenance.